Following your eyes
A chat with Britt Berden on being more than your job, finding new perspectives in nature, and moving back to the Netherlands
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Britt and I met when we were working on a project together at the end of 2022. We got along so well that we had no choice but to remain friends, and I am so glad that we did because she really is a beam of light that shines on life.
To me, Britt is a creative and an explorer, and in this conversation that is what we talk about — her three-month sabbatical in South America and the sense of awe she felt when faced with the scale of the world in front of her, seeking beauty and her work as a creative strategist, her new life back in the Netherlands after many years in the chaos of London, and her dreams for her future home.
For paid subscribers, Britt has compiled a list of things she has been loving lately at the end, from architecture and art to films, food, and inspiring instagram accounts.
So, where I usually start is by asking people who they are.
Who am I? I always find this a really interesting question because it always, especially in London, goes to “this is my job,” but I think there is so much more to it.
So, I am Britt, I’m 33 years old, I grew up in the Netherlands, I’ve got three sisters, so a really nice group of women. I grew up on a farm and we had to work quite a bit there, helping out and stuff like that.
Now I get to my job, I recently started freelancing and I am a strategically-led art director. I am a person who thinks quite visually but also work needs to be grounded in some kind of research. I think I can say I am quite curious, I love finding new things, talking to different people, what brings people together, and what is it that they like about the world. I love expanding my horizons, travelling, cooking, all the clichés. I love green spaces, I love mountains, going out and challenging my body. Does that cover a bit who I am?
I think that’s probably the best “who are you?” answer I’ve ever had!
Oh my god!
I love that you didn’t start with your job.
Yeah, I've just been thinking recently that we are so much more than our jobs. Our jobs may define parts of us but I think it puts a lot of people into boxes in terms of thinking “You are that person so you think in that kind of way.” Or even being quite judgemental sometimes, being like, “Oh that’s the job you do so you’re that type of person” in a way. So I like to open it up a little bit. It’s definitely important but there is more to life than that.
Over the last year or so I realised that when I met somebody I would ask them what they did and now I have switched it to “tell me about yourself” because your work isn’t necessarily the most important or interesting thing about you, so I like that that’s the angle that you’ve taken.
Does that change how people answer? Because you ask the question differently, do they answer differently?
Yeah, I find that the job comes a little bit further down the list. More often it starts with where they are living, where they are from, I’ve even started with movies people have been watching, just things like that, and it decentres the job a little bit.
Yeah completely, I think it’s really interesting. Also the idea — I think it was from that event that I attended, (Y)our 2040 — of describing yourself without actually saying what you do. You look at people differently, but there was also lots of stuff about the ego. For lots of people, they get quite a big ego because they do a certain job, so I think that idea of if you put the ego aside a little bit, who are you then?
Makes you look at yourself a little bit deeper. I love that. As you said, you’re a very creative, visual person, how does that sort of manifest in your life, whether that’s in your work or your more personal projects?
Good question, very good question. I love beauty and I love things looking good, but sometimes I wonder “How does my brain work and how does it work differently from other people?” I work with writers and strategists and they are deep down in the content, and I think that how my brain works when I hear them talk about their work is that I can see what they mean, or envision what that looks like — I have a quick imagination, in a way. But that is more my brain.
At the moment, in my head, I would love for that creativity to come to life where I live, which is a bit weird because at the moment I am a bit of a nomad, trying to find a house. I am staying at a friend’s house and I was in a different friend’s house before, so I think there is something about a house that I find important. It needs to make me feel grounded and calm.
And then, I love beauty around me, whether it’s in the city around me, or maybe if I go to a bar I can really appreciate certain materials or choice of colour, or if I go in nature, I am amazed by some weird shape or something. I think I quite intuitively love to follow my eyes, if that makes sense, and go from there. I love going to museums and filling my brain with visual stimuli because it makes me want to make things or photograph things. That’s the stuff I need to pick up again actually, photography. One day!
I am sure you will do so many different amazing creative projects, but what you just said made me think about the newsletter that I sent out yesterday where I talk about how I went to the National Gallery on Sunday, and I was walking around with my friend and we weren’t putting any pressure on ourselves, we just wanted to look at some nice paintings, and we would walk around and stop in front of a painting that we liked or that drew us in and we would talk about what in that painting drew us in — sometimes it’s the way that the painter has captured a puddle of light on someone’s head or how they’ve done the colours on a flower, and I feel like going to museums is such a good way to just look at things and understand colour and shape and light and tune your brain into different things and it’s so refreshing.
Yeah, and appreciating it in a different way, right, like holy shit, how does a painter look at this object? You're sort of looking through someone else’s eyes, which I find quite beautiful.
When we were first working together, you were gearing up to go on a sabbatical and I think that going on those sorts of trips to get away from your usual environment can be so powerful to give you ideas, so I thought it would be nice to talk about that trip and what it meant to you and how it maybe still comes up in your life now.
Yeah, that is a good question, there are so many things I could talk about. First of all, I always had in my head that between my first and my second job, I would love to go and do a big trip because when do you do these things? Especially in a working environment, it’s quite difficult to get time off. So I was away for three months and I have reflected a lot on it and it was such a good time.
People say, “You need to be in the present, ladidadida…” but you actually don’t realise what they mean until you’re there — it took me such a long time to get out of my brain, out of my thinking, maybe a month or a month and a half to be fully there and really getting everything in.
I went to Brazil and Colombia and Mexico and the most incredible times were always when I was walking and hiking in nature. Well, there were also incredible city things, but in nature were the moments when I was the most amazed by the world around me.
One thing I was thinking about earlier was that I went to the Amazon in Brazil. It’s a trip that lots of people do but you feel like you’re right in the middle of the jungle, and as Westerners we hear so much about the Amazon being destroyed, being damaged, it being the lungs of the world, and there is quite a negative connotation that it’s really being destroyed and it’s catastrophic for the world. Me and my friend went there for four days and we had this incredible guide who had knowledge that was insane — he could be like, “This bark is good for mosquito bites” or “This is a leaf that they used to use to make a lighter.” He had so much knowledge that was beyond anything that we know, so that was incredible.
We spent one night in the jungle and all of your senses are sharp, the sounds, what you see, can you even sleep? I had a really nice sleep — I think I went to sleep at like 7 in the evening and was completely knackered, so that was really nice. But it was lots of walking through the Amazon, not even talking, maybe listening to howling monkeys super far away, it was a lot of looking and using your senses. That was amazing.
Then, I went to Colombia and we had to fly from Rio to Colombia and I saw the Amazon from far away. So first I felt the Amazon with my hands, I saw things really close up on this super micro-scale, and then we flew over the Amazon for two or three hours, seeing only green, only water, and that made me realise, “Holy shit, we live in such a big world.” The Amazon is insanely big, you cannot imagine. That idea of scale, seeing both scales reminded me of this video that Eames made at one point called The Power of Ten or something where they start somewhere in the body and they just zoom out, zoom out, zoom out.
I think I’ve seen that! And they go into space!
Yes, they go into space. It’s incredible, but that’s the feeling, I was like, woah. I could have cried. Another thing is that we were with a couple of other Europeans and they were asking the guide, “Oh, so what about the destruction of the Amazon?” and the guide was quite reactive, in a way, like “What do you mean? People need to live here and they need to farm here.” So it was interesting to see the Western world has a certain idea about the Amazon being completely destroyed, which, of course, there are parts of it which are, but also there is still such a rich community and nature there that we don’t have a clue about. So that was very nice.
What I loved in Colombia was that we went on a four-day hike, it was called Lost City which was very organised but very beautiful. You have to walk for four days with a group, and there is a big Indigenous community there, so they only allow 200 people in that park and they can only walk with a guide, so it’s quite controlled, but it was really nice. Most of the time you just walk and the only thing you think about is that you need to take another step and you don’t really know where you’re going but you just look around and it’s really beautiful.
And then in Mexico, there is just so much craftsmanship and creativity and beauty and history and stories and food. I mean, yeah, it’s really really really beautiful.
And the colours!
Oh yeah, so vibrant! Especially in Oaxaca, you would have a magenta wall and then an Yves Klein blue wall next to it, it was just so beautiful.
That’s so interesting that you were so impacted by nature because I know you as quite an urban person. You were living in London and now you’re in Rotterdam, which is a smaller city but it’s still very urban, and I feel like that juxtaposition of the urban side of South America and the much more nature-focused side would have been so refreshing. To step into that and breathe that air. And what you said about the microscopic versus seeing it from far away must have been so powerful.
Yeah, that was really powerful. That idea of scale, you know? The idea that you walk just one-thousandth of that whole forest and then you fly over it and go from one place to another without fully understanding what’s below you, I find that also quite interesting.
It’s like flying over the ocean and there is this entire world under there and you’ve got no idea what’s going on. You were on that trip this time last year, weren’t you? Do you feel like you brought home any ways of thinking or seeing or new references and inspirations that have come into your way of being in the world?
I love how when you travel and meet new people, you see their reality and it brings in a lot of perspective. I think that’s the most important thing, to be seeing things in perspective and knowing how good you have it and that you can’t complain about certain things because you live in a world that is so safe and things happen easily. I just try to remind myself of that. And then just generally a good feeling from such welcoming countries. And cooking!
Oh my god, I thought you said cocaine!
No! Cooking! Mexican cuisine is super incredible. I’ve had a few days where I’ve bought all of these ingredients that I had over there and cooked for other people, so that’s one of the main things.
And now you've moved from London back home to the Netherlands and I thought we could talk about that as well. When did you get back there?
Mid-December, so it’s been two months, but also there was Christmas and stuff so basically a month and a half.
And you’d lived in London for a really long time, hadn’t you? So what has it been like finding your footing again and re-discovering your own culture, as you said earlier?
I lived in London for eight years and I was never planning on staying that long — probably no one in London is planning to stay that long. But I went there to do a Master’s. London was never my go-to place, I always liked cities that were a little bit quieter and a bit more, like you knew what was happening and you could find people that you knew in certain places. So London was never my number 1, go-to place, but then because the Master’s was there I moved to London and I remember that moment when I started the course was just incredible. That feeling of, “Oh my god, I’m on top of the world,” and then that whole adventure started and it was the wildest, craziest adventure ever.
I am so happy that I did that, I learnt so much and I also think that those years between 20-something and 30-something are the time when you really shape yourself, and I’m so happy that I got so much input and ideas and came across so many cultures there, especially during the Master’s because there were people from all over the place.
I think London is a funny city because it’s not an easy one to settle in. It’s expensive and you have little house space, but it gives you everything and culture is up up up. You can get everything and that is amazing, there are always so many possibilities in terms of museums, people, etcetera. I had a really, really nice time, and I don’t think I’ve 100% reflected on it yet, but I had such a good time, especially with the people that I met, and I am so grateful for that.
Also, the jobs that I got that I didn’t even know existed, how I pushed myself, how I learnt so much there, and also, I think if you’re a Londoner, you’re sort of flexible and fluid and you have a certain open mind — in London, everyone I know has an open mindset, which is really nice.
I always knew I didn’t want to stay there though so at one point I was like, “Ok, when do I move?” That was one of the reasons that I went on sabbatical, to be like, “Ok, I just want to think about this thing, where do I want to go? Where do I see myself? Do I want to settle somewhere? Not 100% sure!” So, then I remember writing in my notebook on one of my first days away saying that I need to think about this, but I always felt that I couldn’t think about it yet, I’m not there yet, and then at one point, maybe two months into the trip, I was ready to think about it and I think I was sort of like, yeah, I want to be closer to my family, I think there is something about the culture that I really appreciate that I want to reconnect with, there’s quite a down-to-earthness and innovative thinking that I really enjoy.
Then, as you know, I lost my job and suddenly, I was like, “I think the universe is telling me something,” not that I am a universe person, but I thought that was my chance, so I had this moment of “holy shit, what am I gonna do?” And then there was another moment of “Ok, I think I’m just going to do it,” and it was a real relief because it was always something that was in the back of my head, it was a relief to be saying it and accepting it. Then there was this whole other thing of having to tell people that you really love and who you always hang out with and who are literally like a family that you’re leaving! So, that was another really difficult thing, but also really beautiful and you begin to realise the memories that you’ve made and that the people that you hung out with were the closest people that you had at that time.
My parents were like, “Oh! We’ll come and move your stuff!” so they came with the car, we put everything in, just a car, it wasn’t even a van, and it actually fit quite well, and then we just drove back to the Netherlands. I think maybe there is something in me that hasn’t really realised that I’ve moved countries because it’s still early days, but now I’m here and I am really enjoying it.
There is this thing though of thinking you have an identity and your identity maybe is shaped in different ways, and I think before I went to London I was like, “Yeah, I’m fully Dutch” and you can relate to everybody and how they think and act, then moving to London suddenly it becomes a little bit more complex. I have this idea of the Netherlands as it was 8 or 9 years ago and that has also changed. I have changed and the country has changed, so it’s going to be an interesting thing to actually land. One thing that I really love is trying to connect with expats here because there is something about having quite an open mindset.
It’s so interesting that you had this expectation of what it might be like to be back, but you realise that things change. You go away and things don’t always stay the same, and I am curious to know how things have changed in the Netherlands.
Well, first of all, people are much older, which maybe I didn’t realise, it didn’t click with me. The other day, I went to celebrate Carnival which is really big where I grew up, so most people go back and they dress up and it’s lots of fun, but suddenly I saw lots of people that I went to high school with and they have kids and a couple more wrinkles on their face, and that was a bit of a shock, especially if you haven’t seen them for eight years.
What else changed? I think the city of Rotterdam changed massively. Although my sister lives here and I would come back every year, it has changed so much in that there are so many people here. It used to be a city that was quite quiet, not so much was happening, but still enough to feel challenged, but now there are just so many things popping up and people are living everywhere, it’s spreading much more.
I also think it’s interesting because people have their shit together, you know? They have their insurance for everything and they have everything correctly lined up, but it’s also that they think in boxes a little bit. Whereas in London you just sort of survive, in a way, and go with whatever is happening and flow a little bit with things. Here it’s a bit more rigid.
I love what you say about people being older! You’ve been away for nine years, the passage of time really shows itself! I have found that in my own life recently, where I will see someone who I haven’t seen in a few years and they’ve got a few grey hairs, or my stepbrother was visiting recently and we went to lunch and he took a picture of me and I zoomed in on it a little bit and I could see these wrinkles so much around my eyes! When you’re younger, you feel like you’re going to be young forever and then you realise as you get a bit older that things start to change.
You see yourself every day, but you see those other people less so then you see the difference much more. But yeah, we get older, so of course everybody else gets older too. It’s just funny to be confronted with it when you see a friend from high school who you haven’t seen in a really long time.
I feel like I have seen so many things about Rotterdam over the years, being a new cultural hub and lots of creative stuff going on there and I wonder if you’re finding lots of fun stuff to do there.
Yeah, I think so! I’ve been to a couple of things lately, it was Art Rotterdam where there is loads of art being sold, and Object Rotterdam, where lots of Dutch designers show and sell their work. There is a big community of designers and creatives here because Amsterdam is a bit too expensive, and Rotterdam still has these insane warehouses. The other day I went to a friend of a friend’s that had an opening of their warehouse and it was this incredible space where everyone built their own studio in it. They had built, almost like a tiny house, in that warehouse and everybody had their own design and it was really nice and refreshing to see that this was still possible in Rotterdam even though it’s getting busier and busier. You would have loved to see this as well, they have this greenhouse but on top of another level and they just made that all themselves. Well, the greenhouse they got from a farmer or something, but they built their whole studios and it felt like a little street in the warehouse. It feels like London is more commercial in a way and Rotterdam is much more experimental which is really nice to see.
And is there anything in particular in the next few months that you’re really looking forward to, whether it’s a creative project or a personal thing?
I am excited to find a really nice house and make it my own. That’s probably the most exciting thing.
How do you make a home for yourself when you settle somewhere? What does that look like to you?
There is always this dream in me that I would love that build my own house from scratch and live with like-minded people. I don’t know if it can be a reality! But what that would mean is lots of wood, lots of natural materials, that you look outside and have a green tree or something, that’s what it would look like, I think.
There is this meditation that I think you would like and it’s about envisioning your future self and you go through certain meditations and it’s really interesting. My friend recommended it and she was like, “I see this house that’s close to the sea and I see the curtain flowing in the doorway”, and I was like, “I see lots of green and a wooden house with lots of natural light coming in”, so it’s kind of seeing that and then making it happen.
It sounds like your dream house is my dream house, so maybe I’ll come and build it with you and we can live there together.
Yes, and we can make a formula so that we can swap, we can go from London and then go to Australia somewhere and you have the same house but slightly different.
And it fits with the surrounding environment, like you always have greenery around you but it always works with the nature that’s there.
Exactly!
Well, that sounds amazing, and I hope that you find the right place for you in the meantime and then you can build something perfect for yourself.
It will work out somehow, yeah.
Some bits from Britt
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